SINGER-SONGWRITER CAROL Hodge has just finished the first three shows in the latest series of gigs with the Steve Ignorant Band, and a few weeks ago released her fourth solo studio album.
Before heading out on the road, Carol spoke to The Hippies Now Wear Black about the pleasures and perils of working as an independent artist, discussed her life within Slice of Life and revealed how Eve Libertine surprised her on stage at The Last Supper.
—
Working with Slice of Life, touring with the Steve Ignorant band playing Crass songs, and writing and performing both as a solo artist and with your own band – are you as relentlessly busy as that suggests?
Last year? Yes, absolutely. But since December, I’ve been pretty quiet, in terms of gigging. I did over 100 gigs last year, in one guise or another, but since then it’s been a bit slower. But looking at my calendar, I can see things picking up again from next month onwards. So that’s good.
Do you relish the diversity of what you do – being able to combine being part of a band, with the Crass shows that you do, and with being a solo artist?
I do love the variety of it. I like playing with different people. Every musician brings something a bit different to the table. So it’s really good to find the quirks and the personal styles that other people have when they’re playing. To improve your craft as a musician, there’s loads of things you can do. But the best thing to do is to learn more songs and play in different styles. Basically to do what I do, and enjoy being part of as many bands as possible. When you learn loads of different repertoire, you get that bit better.
Through your work as a solo artist, there’s a strong sense that you place a lot of importance on independence, on autonomy and having control over what you do and how you do it. Is that right?
That started off as a necessity, basically. I wanted to make the music I wanted to hear, and I didn’t want to be dictated to by anyone else during that process – whether that was creatively or in terms of the business side. But I’ve just released my fourth album on my own record label, and now I wouldn’t have it any other way. ‘Control’ is an interesting word. It is definitely something that I have to be mindful of – wanting to be in control of everything all the time!
But it just does feel more soulful doing it this way. I get to know the name of every single person who buys an album from me. I get to communicate with them directly, and I get to build relationships with all these people that are interested in what I do. Whereas if you’re signed to a label, which handles all that side of things, you miss out on a lot of that potential connection.
Can you see parallels between the different areas of your work – playing with the Steve ignorant band, with Slice of Life, and your own solo artistry? Is there a common thread: being a bit of an outsider, being an independent artist? Is that something you recognise?
Do you know, I’ve never really thought about that! I do pretty much strictly associate with weirdos, so there’s that. But, yeah, I guess there is something in common. I’ve been playing in bands for 25 years, and I grew up with the punk scene at the end of the 90s. And ‘DIY or die’ was always the ethos. I remember what we did as a band, the very first band that I was in when I was 15.
We played a load of gigs, and saved up loads of money, and then bought equipment with it. And it just became the norm that you put all the money in the pot to buy the next thing you needed. So we just kept putting money in to pay to record an album, and then to pay to get it pressed. So I’ve always had that mentality – that if you want to do something, you don’t wait around twiddling your thumbs until some executive comes along and plucks you out of obscurity. You put your back into it, and just do it.
What would you do if the offer came along from a more traditional kind of music industry platform, which would obviously mean you compromising to a degree to get the advantages that might come with that?
Is that an offer? Do you know something I don’t? When I was younger, I was very much ‘anti’ anything like that. But at the same time, I was always trying to get signed with whatever band I was in. So it was a weird disconnect. I’m now 41 years old and, at this stage in my life, I don’t have stars in my eyes anymore. I have that clear sense that ‘this is where I am, this is the level I’m at.’
I’m hoping to expand a little with every album that I release, but I’m very much aware of where I stand within the grassroots scene. I don’t have any delusions about that, and I wouldn’t want to be a ‘star’ or whatever. But if that opportunity, to take a step up, came along and it meant maybe sacrificing some control – but it was with the right people – then I would definitely consider it.
When it comes to writing material for a new album, is that something that you just fit around all your other commitments? When you’re on tour, are you in the back of the van with a notepad and a little digital recorder? Or do you have to block out time to write?
I do both. I’m always coming up with ideas and writing them down. I try to have a reasonably structured writing slot each week, where I have time set aside to write and record. And when I’ve got an album session booked in, I’ll block out time a month or so before to get all the songs written and the demos finished. It is a kind of continuous creative process. But once that studio time is booked, that’s the signal to get organized and album-ready.
So you don’t rely on waiting until the ‘muse’ inspires you?
I did use to believe in that. I used to believe that inspiration will strike, and that that would be the only time I could get any good ideas. But now I think of that creative flow as more like a tap that can be turned on. So if I sit down and I prepare my brain and my surroundings and I’m there ready for it, then inevitably something will come through that I can start to work with.
What became the inspiration for the new album? Is there a unifying theme?
It’s one of those things that I’m never aware of at the time of writing but, in retrospect, there’s always some sort of thread linking the lyrics. There’s a narrative or a theme, and on this one I guess it’s about moving on, and taking risks. My songs are always about personal development and what’s going on in my brain. A lot of the time, they are my way of processing things that happen in my life.
The album title comes from a lyric in one of the songs called ‘Clean the Slate’: ‘the hardest route to climb, on the way to the top, is the meandering, twisted line with the vertiginous drops.’ Meaning that you might have an idea of what you want to do or where you want to be at a certain point in your life. But you’re never going to get there in a linear fashion. You’re always going to be kind of meandering. And the trick is enjoying the journey and accepting life on life’s terms.
For someone who has not heard your music before, how would you want to describe the new album to them?
That’s a good question. Well, I always open my solo gigs by introducing myself, and saying that I write songs about my ‘continuing existential crisis’. So hopefully, that’s something that resonates with people. That always seems relevant – the idea that ‘if you have any crises, then have a listen to this, because I’m having them constantly – so we might have something in common.’
That song ‘Clean The Slate’ features Chris Catalyst, the guitarist from Ghost and Eureka Machines amongst various other bands. He plays guitar, synth and bass on that and it’s built around a really heavy, nasty, unexpected riff. Because a lot of my songs are quite piano based, I just wanted something really aggressively guitar led. And so that song ticks that box.
I like that, and the song after it ‘Giving It Up Now’. I think they’re quite a pairing. Sometimes I can really struggle with the order of songs on an album, and those two back-to-back work really nicely. So I’m really proud of that double-whammy.
When you’re working on material, do you have people who are your sounding board? Or are you very much a ‘lock yourself away and do it’ kind of artist?
No. I’m very, very belligerent and do it all myself. It’s a weird thing. I’ll share the songs with people when I’m ready. So I do have a few friends and colleagues, I might send a demo to occasionally. But I’m never really looking for collaborative criticism. I don’t really want them to critique it and to tell me what they’d do instead.
When I do work in the studio with Dave Draper, who’s a producer who’s worked on the last four albums I’ve done, we do agree to tweak some things. But it’s more about instrumentation changes and adding in stuff, as opposed to changing the structure, or the chords or anything like that.
How does that compare with the song writing process in Slice of Life?
So with Slice of Life, what usually happens is that Steve will come with something. ‘Ooh, I’ve got this idea. I want it to sound a bit like this song,’ he’ll say. And it will invariably be a reference from a 1960s’ film or something like that. That tends to be his go to. He’ll say something like ‘there’s this scene in the film Charlie Bubbles, when they’re in a department store. I’m gonna play it for you and listen to the music in the background. I want something a bit like that’.
So the three of us – me, and Pete the guitarist and Pete the bassist – will have a listen and improvise a bit and come up with some ideas. Steve will then say ‘no, it should be more like this’ or ‘oh, I really like that – keep doing that.’ So he’ll conduct and shape whatever we’re jamming. And then, he’ll go away and write the lyrics, or he might already have the lyrics. That’s the kind of process we follow. Steve comes up with the song idea – the concept, the lyrics – and then it’s over to us to help him shape what he wants to happen musically.
When Slice of Life play live, there seems to be a very relaxed, warm dynamic amongst the band.
Absolutely. I mean, we’ve all worked together for so long now. Bassist Pete is the newest recruit, but he’s been in the band since around 2015 – a good eight years. And then me and Pete the guitarist, we’ve known each other for 20 years now. And the two Petes went to school together, and all three of us are from Cumbria. I’ve been working with Steve for 12 years now.
So it comes down to familiarity, you know? It’s like family, and that’s including Jona – Steve’s wife – as well. When we all get together, it is just like seeing your family again, and hanging out and playing music together. It’s great.
And you’ve played support to Slice of Life at a few shows now.
I’m always hustling for solo gigs, and a few times a promoter has said ‘oh, because you’re gonna be there anyway, do you want to be the support?’ I think it’s something that does work, when it’s just me playing my solo stuff. It seems to fit well with Slice of Life, I think.
When you first began working with Steve, and signed up for the Last Supper tour, you can’t have imagined that you would still be singing Crass songs alongside him all these years later?
Yeah, I was grossly misinformed – clearly. We all thought, when we joined the Last Supper band, that the Shepherds Bush gig in November 2011 was going to be the last one. We all thought ‘that’s it – he’s never going to do these songs again.’ People travelled from all over the world for it, you know? Poor Steve was so hung up by that. Because he’d said he wasn’t gonna do it again, he was terrified of changing his mind and what people might think, what people might think of him, if he did. He didn’t want to go back on his word.
I mean, at every Slice of Life gig we’ve usually done a couple of Crass covers at the end. And people love it, and sing along and it’s such a good atmosphere. I think we’d all known for a while that there’s an appetite out there to hear those Crass songs again. And really, we all wanted to do it. It’s always a great gig – these amazing songs, all so powerful to do.
I am surprised that we’re doing it again, but I’m very, very glad. We are adding in different songs, playing around with the set and mixing things up. I’m playing keys, which I didn’t do the first time around. It’s a different line-up, and a very different feel. It does feel a lot more like a punk band this time, whereas I think the Last Supper performance had a bit more of a rock edge to it. This feels a bit grittier, with this line-up and what we’re doing with it.
When you were first invited by Steve to join the Last Supper band over a decade ago, you would have had every right to feel a little bit daunted and even intimidated by being asked to do what you were being asked to do. Did you feel confident from the outset, about how you would be received and how you would come across?
Oh, god, no – not at all. I was very nervous about what people would think of me, because they didn’t know who I was. And being the only woman in the band, it always feels like a slightly different pressure on stage. I remember the first gig I did with that band was a sold-out show at this punk club in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. A friend of mine just sent me a video of that show, and it was weird to see it again. I did that gig pretty much just straight off the plane. But once we got going and did a few gigs on that American tour, I got more confidence. I definitely found my feet, and gave it my all.
While Steve faced some criticism at the time for going on tour with these songs, my sense is that fans were very supportive, encouraging and impressed by what you were doing from the outset. Is that right?
On the whole, people are very, very positive about what I bring to it. I’m really pleased about that, because I’ve worked damn hard on this. I’ve spent a very long time thinking through things and rehearsing. I didn’t go into it saying to myself ‘I’m just going to take these songs and do what I want with them’. I was very careful to try to honour what Eve and Joy did originally. But also I didn’t want to just try and mimic them. It’s got to be my voice and my character when I perform a song. But, yes, I am glad that people recognise that it’s something that feels ‘Crass-like’ to them. That is important to me.
I’m rehearsing three new songs that I’m performing this time for the first time. One of them in particular is so fast. Every day I’ll whack it on, and just sing along with it for ages and ages, and just try and get my mouth around it all. One of the hardest ones to sing, which we don’t do any more, was ‘Where Next Columbus?’. There was no opportunity to swallow at any point during the entire song! It’s like four-and-a-half minutes of continuous machine-gun lyrics. Like, it’s fine. You know, you train for it, and you practice it and you do it, but it wasn’t an easy song to sing. None of them are.
I don’t know how Steve does it. He’s got 20 years on me, and he sings a lot more of those songs than I do live. And he gives it 210%. It comes down to yelling really fast for an hour!
Do you have any particular favourite shows from the Last Supper tour?
I remember playing the Fox Theatre in Pomona in Los Angeles. It was sold out, probably two-and-a-half to three thousand people. The building is a bit like the Shepherds Bush Empire, or maybe like the Apollo in Manchester. And I just remember, as soon as we started playing, loads of people started climbing over the balconies to get down into the pit on the ground floor. And it was just absolute mayhem. I really remember that gig.
Particularly in America, the audiences were full of kids, which I wasn’t expecting at all. The spread of people who come to punk gigs goes from teenagers all the way up to people who were there the first time around. And then obviously the Shepherds Bush Empire gig at the end of the tour was amazing. Very emotional.
Did you know that Eve Libertine was going to join you on stage at that final show?
No! We didn’t rehearse that at all, or plan it. I felt somebody pinch my bum, and I thought it was Steve. So I did this big theatrical turnaround and it was Eve. And I was like, ‘oh, my god.’ I was well excited!
Let’s finish off by talking about where you are now with your solo work. So Vertiginous Drops is out and you gigging and playing songs from it. What’s been the reception like from audiences to the new material?
It seems to be going down well. I’m starting with the song ‘Stop Worrying Baby’, which is the opening track of my second album, and then playing ‘Never Run Out of Things to Worry About’. That way we get all of the worrying out of the way at the start of the set. And we can move on to other existential topics! But, yes, the new songs seem to be going down well, slotting in nicely with the other material.
I’m trying to play mostly stuff off my last two albums because that’s probably what most people will be familiar with. A few reviews have come in – all very positive. It’s always good to get a nice review, but I don’t really rely on them for validation or whatever.
And as a solo artist, and an independent artist, doing your own thing on your own label – what counts as a successful album release for you? What would need to happen for Vertiginous Drops to feel like a success?
That’s a good question. First and foremost, do I think it’s a better album than the previous one? Do I feel I’ve pushed myself more? Do I feel I’ve developed musically, lyrically on this one? And I do – compared to the previous albums. That’s probably the most important thing.
A second aspect is – do I feel like it’s reached a few more people this time? And again, I do feel it has this time. I’ve got some guest artists on it who have helped open up my music to bigger audiences, which I’m very grateful for.
And the third one, something very practical – because I run my own label – have I recouped my costs? And I have, so I’m pleased with that. Now anything beyond this is a bonus. I suppose it is a very practical consideration that last one, but that’s the reality.
You have to be your own tour manager, right? You have to do all your own booking and organise your calendar?
Yeah. I do everything. I’m the only person who works for me!.
So the next thing is getting back out on the road. Are you mixing up solo gigs with shows with the Steve Ignorant band?
Whenever I’m free, and somebody wants to book me, I’ll go do a gig! Across the rest of the year, we’ve got a set of Crass shows, a few festivals, and hopefully going to America in September. And together with that there’s my solo stuff. I’m doing quite a lot of supports with Ginger Wildheart, and a lot of those are going to be me and a guitarist called Ben Marsden. We’re gonna be doing a two-hander, playing some of my songs and a few of his songs.
And then I’ve got some solo gigs, and I’ve got gigs with my band, the Carol Hodge Band. We’ve got a few festivals lined-up including Bearded Theory and Strummercamp. We’ve got a tour later in the year. So I’m keeping it as busy as possible – the whole spectrum of Hodge.
CAROL HODGE. 2023. Vertiginous Drops. Midnight Stamp Records. Out now.
Carol Hodge’s fourth studio album showcases her finely-honed songwriting and vocal skills to impressive effect, easily convincing as her most assured release to date. Vertiginous Drops blends catchy pop tunes, and some soaring ballads, with some sneakier, edgier post-punk motifs.
The range and rich emotional textures of Hodges’ voice are all brought to the fore by the work of producer Dave Draper, who adeptly handles the different soundscapes of this intentionally divergent material. Highlights include lilting opening number “Best Will in the World”, the electro-infused “The Price”, eighties pop-diva homage “Never Run Out of Things to Worry About” and the darkly defiant “Bitch, Don’t Break My Serenity” with its Veruca Salt-inspired melodies.
Hodge says that thematic synergies on her albums emerge naturally through the writing and recording process, rather than mapping to a pre-planned blueprint. There’s certainly nothing unnatural in the way that the lyrics on Vertiginous Drops orbit the recurring themes of resilience and persistence – and tease out the value of taking chances and exploring life’s less well trodden paths.
As with Hodge’s earlier albums, these are reflections seen through a personal prism, rather than the chapters of a political manifesto. Yet there’s an integrity to the way that Hodge approaches her craft as a solo artist that’s in sync with her enthusiasm for the DIY ensemble that is Slice of Life, and echoed in the way she shares in the experience of performing Crass songs on stage alongside Steve Ignorant.
The Hippies Now Wear Black 